#E46 A Good Future is a Future That is Inclusive, With Biljana Markova
About Biljana Markova.
Biljana Markova is an eco-luxury entrepreneur and an animal and social activist. With her company Clean Rebel, Biljana is disrupting the beauty industry by bridging the gap between luxury and sustainability. With more than 10 years of impact-led professional experience at the United Nations, international organizations, and government entities, she is now using business as a tool for good.
Read the HYPERSCALE transcript.
[00:01] Briar: Welcome to my podcast, Biljana Markova
[00:04] Biljana: Thank you, Briar. It's been a long time coming, so it's great to be here.
[00:08] Briar: It has, how long have we known each other for now?
[00:11] Biljana: I think 2019, I want to say five years or so. It's been a while.
[00:17] Briar: And you were my client.
[00:19 Biljana: I was, I just remember when I first met you, I remember you were looking immaculate, like your outfits were always perfection. You were a powerhouse. I would notice you from like a mile away and I loved working with you. We were so good.
[00:35] Briar: So Biljana and I met when we were doing a government rebrand, a communication strategy. We had a VIP press conference, didn't we? And gosh, putting on events like that, we were up until 1:00 AM in the morning getting the last final details done. So we really did get a chance to know each other. But then, I think it was a couple of years that passed. You were living in Abu Dhabi. I was living in Dubai. We rekindled, we met on the beach. I remember walking up to you and our other best friend, Betty, and I said, "Why are we on the beanbags, on the sand?"
[01:10] Biljana: That's right. Yeah. And they told me that you had made a reservation, you asked to be on the sand. And I was like, there's no way. Like, Briar would never volunteer to be barefoot out somewhere. So I knew that they were wrong.
[01:23] Briar: And I remember laughing about that because I had rung them five times to make sure I would not be on the sand. So that was a really fun meeting. I think for me it was a real changing point in my life and I know that we've discussed this previously, because up until that moment of time, I had been on an incredibly lonely journey as an entrepreneur. So for many years, about three or four years I had basically locked myself in my apartment and was building the business from the ground up. At first it started with me, myself and I, and then of course, brought lots of team members and things. And I think because I started entrepreneurship so young, I was really finding it quite hard in order to relate to people my age. I'd go to brunches, they'd want to talk about makeup and boys, and these kind of conversations are good and fine, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I was facing very different challenges in my life. So part of me was kind of like, you know what? I don't need friends. Friends are a waste of my time, and I'm just going to do this all myself. But how wrong was I? Because I think things instantly changed for me when I met you guys.
[02:35] Biljana: Yeah. I think, we spoke about this before, and the thing is, especially because you were young, you probably had a hard time balancing, your life and all of the different aspects of your life. And it's very understandable. I think a lot of people, especially women who have careers find it hard at first, but it's important in any career, but also as an entrepreneur, to make sure that all of the aspects of your life are fulfilled. So friendships are so important. I commend you for not going into the path of partying and stuff, but instead you were focused on your business. I admire that about you. You have real focus, but at the same time friendships and good friendships can add so much to your life, especially for me, my girlfriends are one of the biggest support systems in my life. I really don't think that I could have done anything without them over the years as well. Most of the time men come and go, but your girlfriends stick around forever.
[03:41] Briar: And obviously I've got you here on my podcast on International Women's Day. So I think that seems really fitting and this is one of the reasons why I wanted to have a discussion with you, is when I think of you Biljana, I think of someone who is so genuinely happy and grateful and appreciative of all of your friendships that you've got. And you really do embody that perspective of when someone succeeds, like you really do clap for them. And I think the interesting thing from my experience, anyway, when it comes to women is I think sometimes, like we say, oh yeah, we're women supporting women, but then when that woman becomes better than you at whatever they're doing, we don't really support them at all.
[04:33] Biljana: Yeah. I think you're right. In general I've had instances in my life because I think that mentorship is really important. And I've always looked up to these women in my previous career and now who are somewhere where I would like to be, and I want to learn from them. Some of them have been amazing mentors to me. Some of them, I think because of the stigma from a historical perspective, because in the past, historically speaking, there was very limited space for women in leadership. So every woman probably felt like she needs to compete with other women to stay on top or to get to the top. So that was a very unhealthy competition amongst women. And I think even to this day it happens quite often, but women have to realize that this is just kind of a socialized thing. It's not true.
[05:26] Biljana: There's space for all of us. We all can succeed. And there's a big pie for everyone to share, not to compete for. So yeah. This is why I love what you're doing. I don't know if you always realize it, but you being a young woman, especially in this male-dominated field, like many industries are male-dominated, but futurism and technology is a very male-dominated field. I'm sure that a lot of women and young girls are looking up to you because they see your face out there. They see that, you are doing, you are setting your own rules and you're living by your own rules, and they're inspired by you and they understand that they can do it too. So good for you.
[06:10] Briar: Thank you. I think that's one of the big things that really does get me up in the morning. It's to be a little bit more visible. It's to be potentially a role model for people. And I think at the end of the day as well, we need to remember that we don't have to embody male energy. We can lead with compassion, we can lead in our feminine energy, and we can still rock a red lip while we do it.
[06:37] Biljana: Yeah. I love the concept. I remember many years ago I was reading an article about, I forgot her name now, it was a long time ago, but it was basically the CEO of a French nuclear energy company. And she appeared, I think on Forbes or something in a flower, like a flowy, flowery dress. And they were saying look, I mean, women can channel, can use their feminine energy, like you said, their strong suits like empathy, compassion to get to the top because this is something that sometimes is lacking in men, but we should channel our strengths instead of trying to be men, of course. So yeah, I love that combination that you have going.
[07:21] Briar: I had some feedback or some advice from a relationship coach many years ago. He specializes in relationships within the workplace and I must have been about a year old in entrepreneurship. And he said to me, he said, "Briar never change this." And I remember that day I was wearing this bright hot pink Barbie doll dress and I had bright hot pink Barbie doll heels and he said, "never ever change this." And I remember looking at him being quite confused about what he was saying, and he said, a lot of the CEOs, female CEOs that he meets and coaches and trains, he said, they've become quite masculated in their energy. They've become quite hard. They've started speaking in a deeper sort of voice. And he said, keep this femininity about you, and that will really make you stand out and make you special, like channel this. And I thought that was a really interesting thing at the time. That really didn't mean a lot to me just back then. But now, I really do think from my experience of being a leader, that I understand what he said. I have made it into my superpower. We can wear red lipstick, we can wear high heels, we can go to male-dominated conferences and still dress ourselves and how we want to be like, why not?
[08:46] Biljana: Absolutely. And this goes back to, people connect to your authenticity, to your vulnerability. So whenever you try to be someone that you are not, you've already lost. So you have to always be yourself. And I know from your childhood that sparkles and color.
[09:04] Briar: I do like some sparkles, if you didn't tell.
[09:08] Biljana: All of this, even as foreign as it was in your upbringing, like in the kind of rural area of New Zealand and you were different from the start, but you were being yourself. And that takes a lot of courage, and it takes a lot of strength. So of course, don't ever lose that. You've already made it this far. If you can make it as a teen and a child to be yourself, I think you're golden.
[09:29] Briar: So the theme for this year is International Women's Day is inspire inclusion. And obviously we spoke before about how potentially there wasn't space created for us in the leadership roles within organizations. How else do you think we should be encouraging inclusion and why do we think it's important?
[09:52] Biljana: I just read a UN report about the state of women from last year. And it's still the case that I think there was only 25% of women parliamentarians. Only like under 10% are head of government or head of state. I think in the business world, it was under 30% of CEOs who are actually women. I'm sure the Fortune 500 it's far less than that. So there are so much space for improvement there. I think that a very important aspect and this was the case in one of the organizations I used to work for. For example, you have to start measuring these things. So if you're working for an organization or in government, whatever it is, you have to get the data. How many women are in your organization? And more important, how many are in leadership positions? How many are decision makers? That's one thing, we have to have a baseline. And then you have to measure your progress.
[10:55] Biljana: You have to put in place certain policies within your organization. I think it's very important to make sure that you promote an equal amount of women, that you hire an equal amount of women, using quotas for example, in your organization, because it's very easy to kind of get back to kind of a comfortable space where you have like a male leader or male CEO or something hiring other men because he's more comfortable with that. But when you have quotas in place, you can make sure that you are, hiring women. You can make sure you're promoting women things like maternity leave, all of these things that are very common in let's say, western Northern Europe, but maybe not so common elsewhere.
[11:41] Biljana: Also, making sure there's paternity leave for the equal amount of time, because oftentimes there's this expectation that women have to be the primary caretakers. I think in the world, on average, women spend two and a half or three hours more on housework and care work than their male counterparts. And it's somehow expected that we need to do it all. Women in leadership get asked this question all the time, like how do you balance your family and work? Whereas men never get asked this question and I find that's a very sexist question. So either ask men as well or don't ask women this question because we shouldn't be expected to be the sole caretakers. So there are many things you can do. But yeah we really have to step it up. I mean, the state of women is not good.
[12:30] Briar: I agree with you. And looking at women in technology and women in artificial intelligence especially, yes, they are there, but we're not there enough. Quite often women are saying that in the technology space, there's like two men to every one woman. I was very disappointed to see that Open AI had an all-male board again. And I just do not believe that we are doing enough to include women in the technology space. And this is a very real problem to me, because one might argue that if it's only men writing algorithms and creating technology, which is going to shape our future, then are we going to have a future that is with bias or without bias? I remember when Apple launched their health app, and because they only had an all-male team design it, when it launched, there was absolutely no data or period tracking or anything about this, which is a very important thing for women to be using.
[13:42] Briar: And they just hadn't thought of this feature because how could they, they were only looking at it from their perspective. When we ask people to think about the future, everybody's got a different idea as to what a perfect or good or happy future looks like to them. No one has the same answer because everybody's got a different upbringing. They come from different cultures. Everyone's had different challenges. We've got different educational experience. And the problem is that if we have boards of a similar type and we're not seeing any diversity in gender or even diversity in age, experience, ability, then how can we create a future that is going to be good for all? Because the way that I see it, a good future is a future that is inclusive.
[14:38] Biljana: You're absolutely right. I was just listening to this podcast with Peter Diamandis and they were saying basically that in the next 10 years, we're going to see progress and exponential growth of technology equal to the last hundred years. Not only that, our technology is developing not in an exponential way, but they were calling it super-exponential because all of the technology that start to converge and leverage on one another, it's not like you have to separate the internet and everything starts converging. So imagine in 10 years, possibly my kids are going to be living in a world that is comparable, like to the 1920s now, this is the kind of difference we're talking about. So we need to equalize the playing field quickly, in terms of inclusivity, not just women, as you said. Very good point. Diversity comes in many different forms, background, education, age and so forth. So it's very important, what we do now at this moment in terms of diversifying how we develop technology, and having everyone on board, as you mentioned.
[15:54] Biljana: I think also Professor Fuller, that you had on your podcast was talking about this board that he went to and there was like a person from the Vatican, etcetera. I thought that was brilliant. And we should take this perspective with any type of, work we do on technology. Because one of the futurist, famous futurist said, first we make technology and then technology makes us. So we need to be very mindful. I just wanted to bring it back to one point you mentioned about the health app and Apple, because it's a paradox kind of, because actually health data that we have today, the research that has been done in medicine has been done primarily on men. So even, forget about the app, but the data that we have almost doesn't take women into account anyway. Until, I don't know, maybe 10, 20 years ago, women were not even part of experiments at all. They didn't even understand that our hormonal cycle goes on for like 28 days or 30 days, whereas a man's hormonal cycle goes on for 24 hours. We're so different biologically. So how can we even expect that Apple would take, like a diverse approach in developing their app? We're so far behind. We really, really have to make it happen.
[17:11] Briar: I wonder if in the future we might have artificial wombs that are creating babies. It's just been so fascinating. I guess the power that IVF has given a lot of people in their journey as a career woman and someone who is quite passionate about building. My businesses are my babies, it has been good to not feel like I've had to rush into motherhood and I can just be mothers to my cats. What are your thoughts in the future about having artificial worms? Do you think that this might help equalize the playing field a little bit so that women don't feel after they go off and have babies and go into motherhood, that this does impact their career? Because I know based on research that this does impact their career financially. They do retire with less money.
[18:06] Biljana: Yeah. And I mean, it takes a long chunk of time out of your life to carry a child to take care of the child in the first months, especially, etcetera. So of course it sets you back in your career path. I can relate to this because thinking of my own, my husband and I thinking of having children and when the perfect timing would be, etcetera, because of course it doesn't affect men as much because they don't have to carry the child, etcetera. But as women, we have to really consider this very carefully because it does have a huge impact. And speaking of artificial wombs I think it would be great to have this option. I mean, I'm very pro-technology in general. I think it's amazing, and I think in many ways it brings us closer to our true nature and to enlightenment in a way. But having a way, like a surrogate, we already have a lot of women who choose to use surrogates instead of their own womb. But this will definitely free up women of having to think about how to time having a baby perfectly and what will it do to their careers and to their lives, etcetera. So I think it would be awesome to have the option, why not?
[19:24] Briar: Would you put your kids in an artificial womb?
[19:27] Biljana: Good question. I would have to learn more about the technology, and it would have to be developed to a point where I would feel comfortable. But let's presume.
[19:37] Briar: So no one can switch the power off. That would be terrible.
[19:40] Biljana: It would be, I think at that point, hopefully they have some kind of generator going. But let's say the technology is perfected, I definitely would consider it. Of course, you would miss out on the feeling of growing a baby inside of you, I guess. Which I'm sure a lot of women would feel that's something they want to experience, but again, why not have the choice? That's all I'm saying.
[20:05] Briar: Yeah. I don't think I'm so worried or so attached to the idea of feeling something growing inside me. Yeah, it's interesting, but it's a very personal question.
[20:17] Biljana: Exactly. It's all about freedom, the freedom that technology can give us to live our best life and design our life in a way that we want to. That's freedom.
[20:29] Briar: So I was speaking to somebody about how I was contemplating about bringing a child into this world, because I'm quite busy. I live between two cities. I've got lots of career aspirations and hopes and dreams, and I just felt like there might be a little bit of a distraction for me. I know I would love them to pieces. I absolutely dote after my cats and things like this. So I was wondering about the time and when I would do it, and I can't remember who it was, but they said to me, they were like, oh, Briar, don't even worry about that. Be like the French, the French have this mindset that if you bring a child into the world, you do not change your world for the child. Like that child comes up to you for lunch. That child follows you in whatever you are doing on a day-to-day basis. Whereas I think when I was growing up and I absolutely love my mum to pieces, I feel like she gave me and my brother and sister 120%, she was driving us to tap, she was driving us to swimming, singing, drama, like we were literally her whole world. And that was amazing growing up. And of course, I'm so appreciative of it, but I really do feel that my mom, like she gave us her life, so to speak.
[21:49] Biljana: Yeah. I think a lot of women, give their life to their kids basically, and they prioritize the children over everything else. But I don't think that you need to feel like you have to do that. I can see where you would think that, oh my God, that's what I would have to do as well, because that's how I was raised. But in my case, for example, my mom was working a lot, so I actually had to fit much more into her schedule than she fit into mine.
[22:17] Briar: Like the French, but she's Bulgarian.
[22:19] Biljana: Exactly. Maybe she has a French woman inside of her. I don't know. She basically took amazing care of me. She's an amazing mom, but she was quite busy. And it has its disadvantages, I have to say, but it also made me very independent. And I think in Buddhism, there's this notion that when you have a child, the child soul chooses you as their mother. So, there's a reason why you would have this particular child so that you can grow in a certain way. So your child is a tool for your own self, your own growth in a sense. So I think you're going to be an amazing mom. I think you're going to design being a mother exactly how you want it, and as you should, as you've designed your whole life the way that you want it. So you don't have to worry about that. You're going to be fabulous.
[23:11] Briar: I feel like we're about to do some kind of pregnancy announcement, which we are definitely not!
[23:18] Biljana: When the time is right.
[23:21] Briar: So your entrepreneurial journey, I'm very excited for you and I'm very proud. It's in the making. Tell us about when the launch is.
[23:31] Biljana: Thank you so much, because honestly, you have been one of my biggest inspirations for going for it. As you know I'm someone who has been raised very, like with the values of going to a really good school, then getting a really good job, working a nine-to-five, climbing the corporate ladder. So the mindset shift from that to saying, okay, I'm going to take the risk and I'm going to go a completely different route, has been probably the hardest part of becoming an entrepreneur and the most rewarding. It's been a period of growth for me personally, that even just the process of developing a business is so rewarding that no matter what happens to this business in the end, I'm grateful just to be here. So my company is called Clean Rebel, as you know. It's a skincare company and we're launching on the 8th of May. So please mark your calendar. You have to be there.
[24:30] Briar: I will.
[24:32] Biljana: And you have been besides an inspiration, one of my testers for quite a while now. So you know that the journey has been long. In fact, I started thinking about it like many years ago, but I just now had the guts to go through with it. So Clean Rebel is all about actually empowering women and it's inspired by the strong women in my life, from my grandmother to my mother, to my girlfriends. It's women who are strong, they're independent, they make their own rules. They stand for something, they defy the traditional norms and expectations and they want to make a positive impact on this world. So my skincare line is clean, it's organic, it's vegan and cruelty-free, yet it uses the most, high-performance ingredients.
[25:24] Biljana: And it's effective. It uses very, very high-quality ingredients that really work for the skin. And our other concept is that it's skincare that uses as few ingredients as possible, so we don't burden your skin unnecessarily. On the contrary, we use ingredients that have been around for thousands of years in some examples. And then we also use ingredients that are based on the newest green technology that there is for skincare. So I'm really excited about it. I can't wait to start. And yeah, I hope you're there on the 8th of May.
[26:04] Briar: I will be. And in terms of your product design, it's been many years since you've quit that toxic supermarket product, isn't it? Like, from my understanding, you were making your own deodorant at one point. Tell us a bit about this. What made you quit? What did you discover in regards to our common beauty products and what they have in them?
[26:29] Biljana: Yeah. So years ago when I moved to Los Angeles and I went to school there, if you've ever been, and I know you have, like LA is very health conscious, very eco, very organic. So I started with like an organic diet, and at some point I discovered that basically whatever you put on your skin is absorbed into your body just as if you would eat it. One of our models with Clean Rebel is if you can't eat it, it doesn't belong on your body. It doesn't belong on your skin because it's the same thing. So you have to be very mindful of really what you put on your skin. So, you don't want ingredients that are very common and traditional, like you say, drugstore, even very expensive products, if I may say so that are hormone disruptors, non-carcinogens, etcetera.
[27:21] Biljana: And yes, you're not going to drop dead if you put that cream on your face that moment, but there's something called bioaccumulation. You start accumulating toxins over time from your skincare, from your water, from your food, from the air we breathe, and everything. So I believe in controlling what I can, because you can use clean ingredients and have better effects on your skin than you would be with traditional ingredients, let's say. And I believe in the fact also that we don't have to pollute the environment. We don't have to be testing on animals or using animal products. We are on a mission to revolutionize the beauty industry. We want to create products that make you look and feel your best and at the same time make a positive contribution to this planet. And that's why we also donate 10% from the very beginning to charity, from all of our profits. And that will scale up to 30% with the company. And my customers will have control over which charity they donate their 10% to and I'm very, very excited about that. That's one of the main reasons also, I started my own company. I wanted to do more.
[28:33] Briar: And as you mentioned, entrepreneurship is very rewarding. We do get to work on the things that give us fire. Of course, it's really hard and you need to have that passion because otherwise, trust me, there'll be no getting through it. I've also had businesses before in the past that… for instance, my fashion business. I thought I love fashion and I do, but when it came to actually being a fashion entrepreneur, that I did not like. So it's interesting, I think to discover more about yourself and your passions that you go through entrepreneurship. In terms of your long-term goal, where do you sort of see yourself in 10, 20 years? I know that you're big on personal development. I know that you're big on societal contributions. Tell us more about the mission you're on.
[29:26] Biljana: Yeah, you're absolutely right that entrepreneurship is something that allowed me to really reflect on what my passion is and what my purpose is in this life. Because, I mean, this is something I think a lot of people are not clear on because inherently we know it when we're children, but somehow society or our family with the best intentions kind of get it out, like take it out of us because we have to get a normal job.
[29:56] Briar: You are absolutely right. I think when we're growing up, we have this childlike curiosity when it comes to the world. We dream and we're excited about the future and we have all of these hopes and things that we want to accomplish in our lifetimes. And then we get old and then we get smashed around a little bit. We realize that life's not all daisies and rainbows. We've got to pay taxes, we've got to do our laundry. We've got to, I don't know, spend time over an Excel sheet. Like we get stuck doing mundane sort of tasks. And there's a lot of very real challenges at the world at the moment, and there's a lot of people who are struggling just even from like a day-to-day perspective, people wondering where their next meal is going to come from, how they're going to stay warm in the winter.
[30:39] Briar: I know that the UK is going through a real power crisis at the moment, and how can we - and I often think about this - how are we expecting people in today's society to be able to think and plan and be excited about the future when we're constantly worried about these sort of day-to-day things, and we're constantly being fed all this fear-driven stuff by the media. We just can't get away from it.
[31:10] Biljana: Yeah our traditional educational system and corporate America have been designed since many, many years to produce humans who don't question, but are kind of cogs in a machine. Corporate America was built on a structure from the army because after World War II, basically they took the same structures of the organization, of the army and the military and put it onto the structure of corporate America or like corporations. So that's why in the traditional organizational structures and let's say corporate America, but this is corporations all over the world, you have this kind of very hierarchical structure. I think as time progresses, we have started realizing that this doesn't work anymore in today's world. I think, like I mentioned as well as the educational system, focusing very much on our cognitive and linguistic skills, but not on other skills that are inherently human, such as intuition, empathy, compassion, all of these traits that make us human versus little soldiers that don't question anything and just become part of the big machine.
[32:31] Biljana: I think this this path of humanity that we're on makes me optimistic about the future. I think we are much more enlightened today than we have been at any point in our history as a woman and as a human. I definitely wouldn't want to exist in any other time than today. I look at generations, at the new generations, I see people who are very tolerant, who are very much connected to the world through technology. And I am hopeful and actually I know that we're on a really good path. There's a author called Stephen Pinkett, who wrote a book exactly on that, because if you look at real statistics, UN statistics from the past 20 years you will see that we're living in a world today where far less people are dying from war, of course from disease, there's less discrimination, etcetera, than at any point in history.
[33:38] Biljana: And although we feel like, and there's many people suffering, no doubt about it, and there is war, no doubt about it, as a whole, on average, humanity is, I think on an incredible path. But I just want to note that because what I mentioned earlier about the super-exponential growth of technology, I think we are at a point where if we don't wake up now, if we don't develop our human consciousness quickly, if we don't become wiser, then we will use our technology to destroy ourselves versus using our technology to live in a utopia, to reach that higher state of awareness and consciousness and enlightenment that we are on a path to reach. So this is such a pivotal moment in time and I love the work that you do, because it's a very important piece of work to make that connection to bring futurism technology kind of to the masses and to explain it in a way where people can understand and become interested in taking part of how our technology develops.
[34:49] Briar: So how can we tap into our human consciousness better? How can we strengthen ourselves as humans in order to create a better society?
[35:02] Biljana: Yeah, that's a great question. So actually, the question is how do we leverage our humanity versus, we cannot compete with AI, in that sense, like we cannot speed ourselves up to a point to compete with AI, as like in computers and so on. What we can do is actually slow down, look inward, things like meditation, practices, like gratitude and kind of turning our attention inward to understand who we are as humans is the way to be a complement to technology versus trying to compete with it because we can't and we shouldn't. So to me, the things I like to do, I love Dr. Joe Dispenza. He is to me one of the most amazing meditation teachers out there. As a matter of fact, my husband and I went to a retreat. It was probably one of the most important like, week of my life.
[36:09] Briar: Why was that? What did you experience?
[36:11] Biljana: So it's basically a retreat where you start meditating at 6, 7:00 AM and trust me, I don't get up for anyone, but Dr. Joe Dispenza at that hour.
[36:21] Briar: She really doesn't.
[36:23] Biljana: So you start meditating. So it's like a combination of meditation and lectures and it goes on for 12, 14 hours a day, but you don't feel the time. This man, he has such an integrity to himself. Like he has so much integrity the way he speaks, the way he can explain these completely complex topics such as quantum physics and why manifestation works, like why we're actually creators of our lives. He explains everything scientifically from 50 different angles over seven days. And then you implement the teachings in actual meditations. He does guided meditations, but after a few days, you reach something that I've never felt in my life, which is a point of pure bliss, where you feel, one, you feel this unity of the universe, like you are basically part of something huge. And at the same time that huge space or the universe is actually inside of you. I don't know how to describe it. And you don't need anything. You are at a point where you really are just blissful for being alive, and you don't need anything. And anything that you thought, you wanted in your life, you're just like, but I'm alive and it's magnificent. This feeling, if you can stay with this feeling as long as possible, that's I think the secret of life.
[37:56] Briar: After experiencing such a transformational moment like this, did you live your life any differently after that?
[38:05] Biljana: Yes, it is transformative. We also did something; it was like basically healing of people. So you had groups of 10 people focusing their energy on healing a person that had some kind of disease, cancer or something. This was just as transformational as what I just described, because the process of healing another human feels like you are healing yourself, because the secret is that there's no separation between you and another human. Actually, there's no separation between you and an animal or a plant or anything else in the universe because we're all made from the same stuff. Billions of years ago when the Big Bang happened and the universe was one and exploded into billions and trillions of pieces, it only means that everything you see around you is let's say God's stuff. I mean, we're all made from the same thing. Sorry if this is becoming too esoteric.
[39:17] Briar: No, I'm enjoying it.
[39:19] Biljana: But in a sense if everything is made from God's stuff and we're all made from the same thing, there's really no separation between us. The separation is kind of just an illusion. So remembering that we're all like a unified one or that's like the universal mind, as they call it, and so forth. That moment is where you feel really complete. You feel part, like I said of the whole, and the whole is part of you, and you realize that whatever you do to another person, it's like you're doing it to yourself, whether it's something bad, whether it's something good.
[39:58] Briar: Do you know what I've heard? Just speaking on that last point you made, I was reading a book by Dr. Bruce Grayson, and it's a book about life after death, and he interviewed so many different people about their near-death experiences. And something he said kept popping up from these interviews was the fact that when people were dying, they saw their whole life flash before their eyes and they felt every single feeling that they had made others feel. So if they had upset somebody or caused grievances to them, then they would feel that magnified.
[40:43] Biljana: Interesting. This makes me think of Ken Wilber, who's like one of the most important philosophers in of our time, probably. He says that the different stages of human consciousness are first you have like ethno centricity where you're like focused on yourself. It's all about survival. This is like the caveman or cavewoman, everything is dangerous. Then you develop into this like ethnocentric phase where you're focusing on your immediate tribe, your family, your nation, and this is who you identify with, and you're part of that and everyone else is the other. Then you have world-centric where you understand that all humans are the same. We're all part of humanity, etcetera. And the final stage that we know of is called I think universal consciousness or something where you understand that everything, animals, like I said, and plants and everything is part of us.
[41:43] Biljana: So in that sense, it makes a lot of sense that people would experience this because as I was saying, there's no separation between anything and between people. So yes, when you practice, for example, forgiveness, which was a big thing in my life, there was a time I was very upset and angry at what someone has done to me or whatever. As soon as you practice forgiveness, but the forgiveness is not the traditional, in the traditional sense, like, oh, I forgive you. This type of forgiveness is realizing that whoever hurt you did it from a place where they didn't know that was the best they could do at that time. But in reality, you are really just forgiving yourself. You're forgiving yourself for accepting like a certain treatment or it's really you have to take accountability. So you don't even need to forgive that person. It's about forgiving yourself.
[42:44] Briar: So we've spoken a lot about how we can improve ourselves and look inward. When it comes to the outside, so I created a podcast, must have been about four weeks ago now. I don't know if you've seen it, but I did talk about people using Ozempic on my podcast, and I spoke about my perspective and I held my hands up and said, listen, I'm not here to cause anybody offense and I'm not here to talk about anybody in particular, but why are people using Ozempic without going to the gym and having healthy habits and things like this? Do you think that something like Ozempic, which so many people in society are now using, it's become very commonplace, it's trending on TikTok, and I've got multiple friends that are using it, do you think that something like this is like a band-aid solution? And do you think that society has a lot of these band-aid solutions when it comes to things?
[43:47] Biljana: Yeah, good question. So one of those people you were talking about, could it be me?! (Laughs) So for myself, I can't speak for other people, but for myself I've always been very health conscious as you know, holistic health, like all of this is super important to me. And yes, working out and especially diet, super important. But there comes a time or there came a time in my life where it really didn't work anymore. Like those last few kilos, didn't come off with any type of method I would be using like years ago and it would work, just nothing worked. So I did do Ozempic for about two weeks, but the side effects were very strong. I couldn't sleep, unfortunately. So I got like insomnia and also, the nausea was too much for me. So I switched to something called Mounjaro, which is similar to Ozempic just another medication. And that worked wonders. I absolutely love it. I lost all the weight I wanted.
[44:59] Briar: I saw you after those two weeks and you had shrunk before my eyes.
[45:05] Biljana: No, it took a little bit longer. It took like three months.
[45:09] Briar: It felt like two weeks.
[45:11] Biljana: Yeah, it really works. It's completely, to me, effortless weight loss, which I've never experienced. It was amazing. You're really not hungry, so you really have to pay attention. I think this is really important that you eat enough protein, that you are lifting weight so you don't lose your muscle. And you have to keep in mind that afterwards you have to sustain the same lifestyle. As in any diet if you stop and go back to what you were doing before, it's not going to work, samething.
[45:40] Briar: I think this is a big thing. Some other friends of mine said that it really did take away their muscle. And like I'm at the gym, I'm really trying to build muscle at the moment. I want to have big guns.
[45:53] Biljana: Yes girl.
[45:54] Briar: I'm really pushing for my big guns because I've always had such little weedy sort of arms. So now I'm like…
[45:59] Biljana: You are in the best shape that I've ever seen you.
[46:02] Briar: I'm really pushing myself. I'm really trying. But I had some friends say that the muscle just disappeared.
[46:10] Biljana: It could be, you really have to be mindful because you can go all day and not eat. I forced myself to eat. I don't think I've lost any muscle. I think, yeah, I feel amazing. I'm all for it. But I checked with three doctors. I mean, I made sure I got my blood work and I spoke to all of them. Of course, they all said, don't do it because I'm not obese and I'm not diabetic. But at the same time, I knew what I was doing. I was very clear on myself, on what I'm putting myself through. And it was worth it for me and I love it. And it's true that people are very judgmental. They think that, oh why should she have an easy weight loss? She should suffer, to lose that weight. And we have this perception, but why?
[46:57] Biljana: This is what technology is for. If you have it, like use it, technology is supposed to make our lives easier. And those same people later on asked me how they can get Mounjaro and many of them and I'm not trying to convert anyone. Everyone has to do what's best for them. And if working out diet works for you, great, amazing, no need. But if it doesn't work, I'm telling you the relief that I got from having a solution that actually works in my life was, I mean, amazing. Just like knowing that I can always go back to it. And I don't have to be unhappy with my body.
[47:35] Briar: Do we know much about the long-term effects of something like this?
[47:40] Biljana: So there is a risk of thyroid cancer and pancreatitis from what my doctor explained, but the risk is very, very small. And to this, I just want to say yes, of course, like there's a risk, but so is eating, McDonald's, so is drinking Coca-Cola, if I may say so. I may argue that I think these things are much more dangerous.
[48:01] Briar: Choose your risk.
[48:02] Biljana: Yes. The cosmetics that you use in your day to day and you're putting like carcinogens on your skin. I'm sorry, but I found that this risk was worth it and other risks are not worth it for myself.
[48:17] Briar: I think all of these things are very deeply personal, aren't they? But yeah, I know that you are very healthy. I know that you're very mindful, not just in your mind, but also in your daily habits that you hold for yourself and things. And I think yes, absolutely. When you do have your lifestyle in check, I just worry sometimes that people who don't have their lifestyle in check that they're the ones that are going out there and just whipping that bandaid on as a solution. But the problem is that we can't cover up this kind of stuff. Sure, you might look good on the outside, but if you are eating Macca's and all have all of these unhealthy habits then that's not going to help with your longevity journey ultimately.
[49:04] Biljana: Yes. And longevity to me is also very important because as you always talk about in all of your podcasts and stuff, we're going to be living, let's say, I don't know, 130, 140 years. I want to make them good. I want to be, young and vibrant and lively at the age of 140. I don't want to be basically holding on for dear life. So to me, it's very, very important. And people need to go on this journey for the long term. Like supplements, holistic health, as I mentioned, that is the real key. That's the real secret to a long, good life where you're in good shape and you're healthy. That's what we want.
[49:54] Briar: Well, it's been so much fun having you on my podcast.
[49:57] Biljana: Thank you for having me, Briar. It's been a pleasure. We should do this every week, even just for fun.
[50:01] Briar: We should. Well, we already do have such wonderful discussions and I think that's one of the reasons why I just appreciate your friendship so much as well, is that I feel that our conversations are never surface level. And you always open my mind to new perspectives and you're always so willing and open to hear my perspectives as well. And we appreciate that nothing in life is black and white. And yeah, I think that's one of the reasons I value you so much as a friend.
[50:27] Biljana: Same. I appreciate you, you inspire me every day and I really commend you for your work and for being the person that you are. You are an amazing friend, besides the outer beauty you are just as beautiful inside and I'm honored to have you as my friend.
[50:42] Briar: Likewise.
